"If it's provable we can kill it."
Or, why Jesus isn't a Christian
Published on June 12, 2006 By EmperorofIceCream In Misc
I have seen my Lord with the eye of my heart, and I said: "Who are You?" He said:"You."
(Diwan al-Hallaj, M. 10)

Your Spirit mixed with my Spirit little by little, by turns, through reunions and abandons.
And now I am Yourself, Your existence is my own, and it is also my will.
(Diwan al-Hallaj)

ana'l -Haqq - I am the Truth.
(this is the saying which apparently earned al-Hallaj his martyrdom - al Haqq also means God)

In the year 922 CE a man, al-Hallaj, utterly unknown in the West (though widely known in the Muslim world, and revered as a Sufi mystic, poet, and teacher) came before the legal and religious authorities of his day and, in an an ecstatic trance, uttered the words recorded above - ana'l-Haqq - I am the Truth, by which he meant that he had attained to such unity with God that he embodied in his own person the love of God for Man, the love of Man for God, to such a degree that he had become (in the words of the Jesus of the Christian tradition) the way, the truth, the life -

Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

for his temerity in making so bold a statement, al-Hallaj was executed, by crucifixtion.

I believe that Jesus the man lived, breathed, exercised his ministry as a prophet, and died pretty much as the Gospels report these events. I do not believe that Jesus the man was the Son of God, nor do I believe that he died for my sins and is the means of redemption. Though I could once say in all sincerity that his is the only name on which a man may call in order to be saved, I can no longer say so because I no longer believe that to be true.

Indeed, I have come to believe that I am my own salvation (my own Jesus) just as much as I am my own damnation (my own Adam). I'm little inclined to repeat what I've written elsewhere in defence of such a statement. Those who are interested, go read here (Link).

The 'Christ' of conventional Christianity is actually a form of blasphemy, the idolatry of a man and a prophet based on the propaganda of the tent-maker Paul, who was more determined to preach a 'christ' consonant with the ancient Hebrew scriptures (and so vindicate himself and his people) than he was to affirm that one more Messenger had come, preaching the same message that all the other Messengers had preached: worship God and love your neighbour better than you love yourself.

Since I believe that the spirit of God is infinitely more than the spirit of 'the Christ' I see no reason why that same spirit might not just as readily visit a Sufi poet and mystic as a Jewish carpenter - and in this sense 'Jesus' was indeed a Muslim. Those of you who read the linked article will encounter the Pentagrammaton, the five letter word that proceeds from the Tetragrammaton which is the closest thing that exists to an actual Name for 'God'.

I'm going to quote myself, from that same linked article.

Anyone who would be saviour to himself or others must be able to unite the Divine with the physical, overcome all opposites within himself, and at the same time maintain that tension in unity which is the source of all poetry and prophecy. It is this act of overcoming and submission which is designated by the term 'Jesus'. If you pronounce the Pentagrammaton in Hebrew it becomes 'Yeh-ha-shu-ah' which is usually translated as 'Joshua'. In the Greek of the New Testament it became 'Yay-su', which in English became 'Jesus'.

Jesus the Prophet (in whom I believe); Jesus the God-form (in whom I believe and whom I honor - though I give him no allegiance and he holds no place in my Ritual practice); and 'Jesus' the vocalization of the Pentagrammaton, in which I breathe and move as a fish breathes and moves in the sea; are fundamentally different entities. And all are equally different from 'Jesus the Christ', that blasphemous aberration and idolatrous figment whom most 'Christians' worship without ever knowing that, even according to the tenets of their own faith, this very act of worship is actually a damnable sin.

Jesus the Prophet was, as the Muslims attest, both a prophet and a man. Jesus the God-form is the actuation, the 'making real' in spiritual realms, of the veneration given (erroneously) to Jesus the man over 20 centuries. And Yeh-ha-shu-ah is a proceeding of the Spirit from the utterly unknowable, incomprehensible and Nameless Abyss that is 'God'.

And none of them have anything remotely to do with abomination that most 'Christians' profess to worship even while being utterly ignorant of the true nature of what they claim as God.

Which is why Jesus was never a Christian.


Comments (Page 1)
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on Jun 12, 2006
. appearance dot
on Jun 12, 2006
So he wasnt a Jew?
on Jun 12, 2006
We are told in the Bible that there would be many anti-christs so you are just one of many. If you really are your own Jesus then I offer you a challenge. Have someone drain the blood from your body, place you in a sealed room with many guards posted outside the door who have been informed that they will be executed if they fail in their duty. Then wait three days, cause the guards to fall asleep, open the door, walk out and come eat with me. If you can do that then I will believe you. If you can't then have no ground on which to stand.
on Jun 12, 2006
3 by ABass
Mon, June 12, 2006 10:23 PM


on Jun 12, 2006
" We are told in the Bible that there would be many anti-christs so you are just one of many."


Oh, please, don't flatter him, it will only make it worse. Tell him he's a good Christian just temporarily astray, or accuse him of being one of those wiccans that wear the funny hats and make a lot of perfume. For heaven's sake, don't make a 'threat to Christianity' out of him. He'll never come down from that...
on Jun 13, 2006
hey Baker don't spoil the fun, I was kinda hoping he'd fall for it and make like a dead guy.
on Jun 13, 2006
hey Baker don't spoil the fun, I was kinda hoping he'd fall for it and make like a dead guy




That was funny...

~L
on Jun 13, 2006
Now why don't you tell me I'm wrong, substantiate your point of view with reasoned argument and a selection of scripture to support your reasoning, and come to conclusions that can be debated.

That's what I would expect of the likes of BakerStreet. The rest of you will do what the frightened and insecure always do... which is run away. And as to Abass's 'challenge'... wasn't it Jesus that refused a sign to the Pharisees? If your God refused to prop up the faith of the faithless and the cowardly with signs why should I do anything else?

Abass. Go find a corpse and say to it the words that Jesus spoke to Lazarus. Then bring me the former corpse, walking, eating, breathing, and speaking. Then perhaps I'll believe you to be more than a fool who blasphemes.
on Jun 13, 2006
And KFC?

You might do well to remember that while you have no power to convert, you have an obligation as a Christian to testify to the power of your Lord when challenged by a non-believer. Or are you to afraid to try? Most zealots are zealots because they have no foundation to their faith, only terror that they are deceived.

Remember what was delivered to you, as a believer, by the Apostle Peter -

1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear.

Or is it too much for you to bear, that you be required to give a reasoned argument for your faith? If you cannot, then your silence testifies against you that you are no Christian at all but a liar, a deceiver, and a hypocrite.

Speak, believer. Or keep the silence that condemns you.
on Jun 13, 2006
The rest of you will do what the frightened and insecure always do... which is run away


I don't run that often. Actually, I don't call it running. I call it picking and choosing my fights. Granted, my choices haven't been all that great.

If your God refused to prop up the faith of the faithless and the cowardly with signs why should I do anything else?


Please?


Anywho...Me, I'm just happy how I am in regards to "religion," and all of that.

~L
on Jun 13, 2006
To BakerStreet:

pull your thumb out of your ass and produce something more than 'smart' comments in response to a reasoned article. Or I'll start believing what I've suspected for awhile now - that you're grossly overrated, both as a writer and an intellect. And again, if you refuse the challenge then your silence condemns you.
on Jun 13, 2006
To Lucas:

nothing wrong with being happy in your religion. But if you can't provide an account of why you believe then you're a lousy ad for that religion.
on Jun 13, 2006
nothing wrong with being happy in your religion. But if you can't provide an account of why you believe then you're a lousy ad for that religion.


Well, you see, I am of no religion. I don't care for organized religion. I do believe in a supreme being. I just don't classify it, name it, etc...
on Jun 13, 2006
"Or I'll start believing what I've suspected for awhile now - that you're grossly overrated, both as a writer and an intellect. And again, if you refuse the challenge then your silence condemns you."


Oh, overrated without a doubt; writer, intellect, animal trainer, ballroom dancer... whatever you like. Such obvious things require no condemnation, do they? I think I'll go on warming my thumb.
on Jun 13, 2006
To Lucas:

not caring for organized religion and believing in a supreme being does not mean you are part of no religion. It means you're part of the hoplessly confused lazy-ass religion - which is very nearly the same thing as saying you're a Christian, or at least what presently passes for a Christian.

Believing in something generally means, at the very least, being able to name what you believe in, along with being able to give an outline of the nature of your belief and why you believe what you believe.

And if you can't manage that minimum then, Lucas, in your case it really would be better to keep silent and be thought a fool rather than opening your mouth and demonstrating to the world that you actually are a fool - as you have just done.
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