"If it's provable we can kill it."
Or, things are different now
Published on July 7, 2005 By EmperorofIceCream In Politics
Like many others, I had no kind or charitable thoughts for America in the immediate aftermath of 9/11. I was shocked but not surprised, and to me it seemed that an inevitability had come to pass that flowed naturally from the policies of the American government. Despite my lifelong love affair with the idea of America I had little idea of what America is, and like every other European I was deeply cynical about American sincerity, American generosity, American faith, American self-confidence.

I watched the people leaping from the burning Towers and the only word that came to mind was "suits..." What I felt was that kind of satisfaction the Germans refer to as 'schadenfreude' - delight in the misfortune of others and, though I would not have admitted it then, the motivation of that delight was envy and resentment.

I confess, I smiled as I watched them fall.

Cut to this morning, and the images on our TV screen here in Richmond, live from London, a city I lived in for nine years. Filthy, bloody figures, staggering in confusion. An eviscerated double-decker, one of the big rectangular ones that I used to ride every day to school. It would have been filled with people I knew and understood, with whom I found myself compellingly involved, 3500 miles away in a duplex in Virginia.

And suddenly there was another connection, as shocking, as compelling, to that instant in which I watched a man fling himself from a burning, collapsing building, to fall to his death. To that instant in which I smiled. I remembered my delight, and was filled with shame.

No policy of the American government, no act of the American government, justified what was done on 9/11. No act of the British government, no involvement in any conflict anywhere in the world, justifies what happened today to the people on that double-decker, or those riding the London tube.

And no argument for free speech or personal rights and liberties should stand in the way of the British government pursuing the perpertrators of the attacks against London with all the aggression, hositility, and relentless malice that the British are capable of.

Find them. Kill them. Kill those who shelter and aid them. Torture, with every means available, those who know where they are but will not give them up. Send more troops to Iran and Afghanistan, and root out every element of so-called 'radical' Islam wherever it is found in those countries.

Recognise that every Muslim already behind British and American borders is potentially an enemy willing to die so long as he can kill one of us first - and treat every goddamn one of them accordingly, as a threat to be controlled and contained, where it can't be directly eliminated.

And do not talk to me about your Islam being peaceful and moderate - not unless you are going to decry these crimes, and voluntarily work with the authorities to root out these 'radicals' who have 'stolen' your religion. If they've stolen it, go get it back - or be prepared to be viewed with suspicion and distrust by the non-muslims around you, and to face their hostility.

America is my country now, and I give to her, and every American, an apology for the resentment, envy, and mistrust that led me to smile as I watched innocent Americans die. Just as I owe the connection I feel to those people who died today, who lost someone today, who sits in horrible anxiety and dread today in London, waiting for someone to come home, to the evil acts of a handful of fanatics.

I will not say that I am grateful to them. I will say that I am grateful for the fact that I am able to feel shame, that I am human enough to sympathise with innocents murdered by madmen, man enough to want to kick someone's ass, and still English enough to want revenge for what was done in London today.

I cannot forget the image of that shredded double-decker. There would have been children on it, and old ladies, and lovers, and men going to work. Years ago, I was one of them.

No matter where I go, no matter which country I give my allegiance to, some part of me is fundamentally and undeniably English. Strangely, it has taken a journey halfway round the world, and murder in a far away city, for me to remember this.

Now I have, I will not forget.

Comments (Page 4)
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on Jul 11, 2005

Very good. Now tell me how much given all that we know Mr. Bin Laden identifies with SA? Not much at all. A 4 year old child can recognize the context of his words are used in describing the muslim peoples.

Remember the first run of MOABs? Link in Afganistan? This was the forerunner to the bunker busters used in Iraq.
Link

Remember the first 2 weeks of the bombing of Baghdad? The shock and awe blitzkreig comments came from the heavy bombing used to minimize active resistance once the foot soldiers came in.
Link

The only country we bombed prior to 9-11 was Iraq.  SO you are saying that Bin Laden hit us because we defended Kuwait against Iraq.  Are you now going to repeat your mantra that there is no conection between Iraq and Bin Laden?

Nice way to paint yourself into a corner.

on Jul 11, 2005
This is about responding to a crisis with focus on the perpetrator without getting swept up with by public opinion.


Sorry dude but in this day and age you can not focus on a crisis of this magnatude "without" first dealing with publlic opinion! If you don't, you don't get to stay in office long.
on Jul 11, 2005
I'm going to respond to one of the themes that have become manifest in the responses - rather than the responses themselves.

The theme is this: 'how can people do this?' The answer is actually simple. They can do this because they do not identify their victims as people like themselves. They don't even identify their victims as enemies. The jurist and political thinker Carl Schmitt drew a distinction between the Foe and the Fiend. Foes are people - people whose interests are opposed to ours, with whom we may enter into violent conflict, but still people with whom we can enter into dialogue, should we wish.

Fiends, however, are not people. The enemy characterised as fiendish shares none of our characteristics. There is no point of contact with him except that in which he kills us or we kill him. There can be no dialogue, no communication, no possibility of debate or argument or reconciliation. There is only his destruction or ours. Muslim radicals do not identify their opposition (us) as human. They do not identify us as enemies. They identify us as Fiends. Perhaps, from their point of view, we are.

The consequence is equally simple: there can be no peace, and there will be no end to war - though there may well be a diminution in its scale over time. They cannot defeat us militarily, we will never convince them that our view of the world, our way of life, is something that can be accepted, or even tolerated, by them.

We are their antithesis. They know it, and we ought to know it too. There will never be peace between us, and there will always be more of them to take the place of those we kill. And we can offer them nothing to make them go away - because we have nothing to compete with the promise of paradise as the martys' reward.

I'm reminded of the words inscribed over Hell Gate, as recorded by Dante: abandon all hope, ye who enter here. We have entered into a place from which there is no exit. All we can do is steel ourselves for the trials to come.
on Jul 11, 2005

The enemy characterised as fiendish shares none of our characteristics. There is no point of contact with him except that in which he kills us or we kill him. There can be no dialogue, no communication, no possibility of debate or argument or reconciliation. There is only his destruction or ours

Cold way of putting it, but very apropos. Well stated,

on Jul 11, 2005
Americans are a good-hearted, honest, sincere, well-meaning people - and just fool enough to believe that everyone else is that way too. Or, perhaps, just fool enough to believe that everyone ought to be that way, and can be persuaded to be so by example, or compelled to be so through the use of overwhelming military might exercised in their interest and for their own ultimate good.

Any realist will tell you that this is Romantic, Idealistic, nonsense on a truly grand scale. America's belief in its own Romance, its belief that people are inherently good because made that way by their creator, is why your young men and women will continue to die in Iraq for years to come. It's the Romantic heart of America which has led her people into a conflict that they cannot win and cannot refuse to fight. To concede defeat and withdraw would only serve as the most potent kind of encouragement to those who hate America and all she stands for. To leave Iraq now would be a catastrophe of incalculable proportions. As will remaining there.
on Jul 12, 2005
I'm a big fan of responding the original message after a lot of reponses, and responses to those responses.... and so on.

So I'm just going to say that I can understand EmperorofIceCream's apathy at seeing people die, for it is the same apathy that I'm sure Americans felt upon seeing Israelis, Russians, Spaniards, Indonesians and many more killed in such attacks. The important lesson to draw from this is (a) that there are still people out there in the state you were before, who don't think that this is a big deal (you can't explain the pain to them, but don't judge them for being as human as you are), and ( now that you know how much this kind of experience hurts, never forget that it is your duty as a person to side with the innocent against the terrorists.

I side with Israel in its just fight to peacefully live alongside a Palestinian state; and I do not respect the desire of Palestinian terrorists to destroy the State of Israel.
I side with Spain in its just fight to allow the residents of Basque Country to remain part of Spain; and I do not respect the desire of a very small number of determined Basques to murder innocents so as to seperate from Spain.
I side with the British in their just fight to find out who is behind these attacks and punish them; and I do not respect these perpetrators.
I side with Columbia in its just fight against drug trafficking guerillas; and I do not respect the cartels which seek to kill all who oppose them.
I side with the United States in its just fight to construct democracy in Afghanistan and deliver it from the hands of an evil dictatorship to an elightened government; and I do not respect the will of bastards to undermine these efforts and kill innocent civilians.

These are all the same case in a different shell. Let those who have experienced the pain of a terrorist attack never again forget it, and never forget to side with those who seek peace, against terrorism.

As for the bit about Islam, it is somewhat far fetched. It's not the fault of all Muslims that some are murderers, but I will easily agree that all Muslim governments ought to be distrusted.
on Jul 12, 2005
To Politically Active:

what 'apathy' are you referring to? Apathy in emotional response? or Apathy in terms of calling for some impossible crusade to set right the conflict between Islam and the West? Or apathy in some other form? Perhaps you mistake realism for this apathy you mention?

I confess, I'm a tad confused. Clarify a little, if you would.
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