"If it's provable we can kill it."
Or, things are different now
Published on July 7, 2005 By EmperorofIceCream In Politics
Like many others, I had no kind or charitable thoughts for America in the immediate aftermath of 9/11. I was shocked but not surprised, and to me it seemed that an inevitability had come to pass that flowed naturally from the policies of the American government. Despite my lifelong love affair with the idea of America I had little idea of what America is, and like every other European I was deeply cynical about American sincerity, American generosity, American faith, American self-confidence.

I watched the people leaping from the burning Towers and the only word that came to mind was "suits..." What I felt was that kind of satisfaction the Germans refer to as 'schadenfreude' - delight in the misfortune of others and, though I would not have admitted it then, the motivation of that delight was envy and resentment.

I confess, I smiled as I watched them fall.

Cut to this morning, and the images on our TV screen here in Richmond, live from London, a city I lived in for nine years. Filthy, bloody figures, staggering in confusion. An eviscerated double-decker, one of the big rectangular ones that I used to ride every day to school. It would have been filled with people I knew and understood, with whom I found myself compellingly involved, 3500 miles away in a duplex in Virginia.

And suddenly there was another connection, as shocking, as compelling, to that instant in which I watched a man fling himself from a burning, collapsing building, to fall to his death. To that instant in which I smiled. I remembered my delight, and was filled with shame.

No policy of the American government, no act of the American government, justified what was done on 9/11. No act of the British government, no involvement in any conflict anywhere in the world, justifies what happened today to the people on that double-decker, or those riding the London tube.

And no argument for free speech or personal rights and liberties should stand in the way of the British government pursuing the perpertrators of the attacks against London with all the aggression, hositility, and relentless malice that the British are capable of.

Find them. Kill them. Kill those who shelter and aid them. Torture, with every means available, those who know where they are but will not give them up. Send more troops to Iran and Afghanistan, and root out every element of so-called 'radical' Islam wherever it is found in those countries.

Recognise that every Muslim already behind British and American borders is potentially an enemy willing to die so long as he can kill one of us first - and treat every goddamn one of them accordingly, as a threat to be controlled and contained, where it can't be directly eliminated.

And do not talk to me about your Islam being peaceful and moderate - not unless you are going to decry these crimes, and voluntarily work with the authorities to root out these 'radicals' who have 'stolen' your religion. If they've stolen it, go get it back - or be prepared to be viewed with suspicion and distrust by the non-muslims around you, and to face their hostility.

America is my country now, and I give to her, and every American, an apology for the resentment, envy, and mistrust that led me to smile as I watched innocent Americans die. Just as I owe the connection I feel to those people who died today, who lost someone today, who sits in horrible anxiety and dread today in London, waiting for someone to come home, to the evil acts of a handful of fanatics.

I will not say that I am grateful to them. I will say that I am grateful for the fact that I am able to feel shame, that I am human enough to sympathise with innocents murdered by madmen, man enough to want to kick someone's ass, and still English enough to want revenge for what was done in London today.

I cannot forget the image of that shredded double-decker. There would have been children on it, and old ladies, and lovers, and men going to work. Years ago, I was one of them.

No matter where I go, no matter which country I give my allegiance to, some part of me is fundamentally and undeniably English. Strangely, it has taken a journey halfway round the world, and murder in a far away city, for me to remember this.

Now I have, I will not forget.

Comments (Page 2)
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on Jul 07, 2005
To RH:

I'd respond in detail but find myself slightly repelled by your gift for twisting words. Enough by pointing to the difference between having respect for the ideals for which America stands, and contempt for the betrayal of those ideals by the 'suits' of Corporate America.

Like many others before me, I was too lazy, too indifferent, too envious, to look past the stereotype.

As for my wishing to kill, or have killed, dark skinned Arabs I'm more particular than you give me credit for. I wish to see die only those responsible for the acts of 9/11 and the London bombings. And those who support, shelter, aid and assist them.
on Jul 07, 2005
To Dharmagrl:

Of course no one understands. You would have to come from a different place to understand. No American understands how America is viewed by the rest of the planet. The size of America, its isolation geographically, its power and wealth, all defend Americans from having to deal with the ill-opinions of others. And since they don't grasp the original position, they can neither grasp nor appreciate the changes that can occur in an individual's opinion of America, nor what motivates it.

My time here has made me despise with even greater force the betrayal of their ideals that Americans perpetrate every day: the evil nonsense of affirmative action, the partisan self-seeking of American politics in which place is bought by those who have the deepest pockets, the corruption of the public sphere carried out by every media outlet nightly, the nauseating spectacle of celebrity worship. And so on.

This generation of Americans is largely unworthy of the name - and I do not give a damn how many I offend by saying so.

But no matter how great their failings, no one deserves a 9/11 - or what happened in London today.

And if you feel the need to talk, feel free to call.
on Jul 07, 2005
To Larry Kuperman:

It's my opinion that the Israelis have become the thing they hate. The reasons for becoming that thing are readily understandable - but that doesn't mean they haven't failed their own best aspirations for themselves in the process. Living with terror, devising strategies to nullify it, has a tendency to make us terrible.

You can either accept that realization, or deny it. But denial only ever makes temptation stronger. Personally, I prefer to accept it - that way, one may be terrible only to the degree necessary to overthrow one's enemies.
on Jul 07, 2005
and I do not give a damn how many I offend by saying so.


There is no offence taken. We are not what we were, but we are not yet what we will become.

We are, to some degree, all the things you’ve said. But we are still here. In just under 230 years, no nation has gone though what we’ve gone thought. Breaking away from the mother country, exploring and controlling a vast wilderness, surviving civil wars, race riots, pandemics, crushing economic depression,

but still providing aid for two world wars and other armed conflicts, economic aid to our two hated enemies to bolster their destroyed economies, men and materials for countless natural and economic disasters, innovations and inventions in numerous fields.

The United States is the one the world looks to for help.

Have we had a noble history, constantly upholding the values of the forefathers, no. But they we’re exactly paragons of virtue either.

We are still growing. We may not get back to where we were, but this is America. We tend to surprise people.

A famous American once said: America will never be loved, and it's leaders will be the object of scorn and contempt. However, we can be respected and feared and elevated, but never will we be loved.

IG

on Jul 07, 2005
I have started to respond to this several times and after some deep thought {for me} I decided to say in a few simple words.

Welcome to America, simon.
on Jul 07, 2005
Today He finally understood the anger, the outrage, the disbelief we felt on 911, and understood how justified those feelings were. No anonymous "suits" these, they were his countrymen, his neighbors, his friends, just as those who died on 911 were our countryment, neighbors, and friends.


What about the IRA attacks?
on Jul 07, 2005
Simon, I have given a lot of thought to your article. Frankly, I was disgusted by your admission of feeling pleasure as you watched my fellow Americans (some were my relatives) die in the Trade Center attack. The same anger you feel now is the anger I feel towards people like you were. The idea of deriving pleasure from the deaths of innocent people is revolting to me.

That said, I am glad that you have had an opportunity to learn what Americans are really like and have now, as a result of the horrific events in London, come to understand exactly how we feel about the animals who attack innocents in such a cowardly manner. And I appreciate your comments.
Welcome to the human race. The deaths of innocent people is never anything but tragic and horrific, especially at the hands of such hate-filled monsters.
on Jul 07, 2005
If the violence had happened in Tokyo or Riyadh or Tehran or Darfur....would any of us feel exactly the same? If the victims were a different color or a different race or even a different religion?

Anyone that says that they would feel EXACTLY the same is either very naive or very saintly.

I am neither naive or a saint, but I can honestly answer yes. I would feel exactly the same about the attacks and the animals who carry them out. Regardless of our minor physical differences, cultures, religions, etc., we are all members of the human race and no-one deserves to be attacked in such a way as they go about their daily lives. I have traveled a great deal and if I never learned anything else my travels taught me that people are people all over.
Maybe if one day the majority of people in world come to realize that we are all more alike than different things like this will cease. Until then, these animals need to be hunted down and exterminated. Their actions deserve no less.
on Jul 07, 2005
You've been inconvenienced. The falseflag event hit so close to your abode, to your way of life. Don't be so petty as to think you're doing something good, what with your new-found desire to kill Muslims.


Get a clue clown! How has Simon been iconvenienced? And just HOW has it hit close to home or his way of life? Get REAL! The man is now an american! An just an FYI....I feel the same as Simon does! If they don't want to stand or speak out against the radicals or take back their religon from them, then kill them!
on Jul 07, 2005
No prob EOIC, what doesn't destroy us, makes us stronger...
on Jul 08, 2005
Some very interesting comments to which I will respond tomorrow, as its now 1am.

But I will say this: America, in her brief history, has become very great indeed. And while Americans don't always live up to their own ideals (who does?) I've learnt that they are sincere in the attempt.
on Jul 08, 2005
I speak for no one but the truth. But the weaker mentalities can't see that. They take sides which dooms them to continuance of their wrong thinking. I don't say the US kills entire families with indiscriminate bombing because I like Arabs or Iraqis or terrorists. I say it because it's irrefutalbe that the event occurred.


Reiko, I found an interesting link. I usually don't like to use links as it is very easy to find links that supports one's position. However, I feel like this link, which is not inteneded to discuss the subject at hand, does indirectly touch on the "truth" that you bring up. Wait, the "irrefutable" truth that you bring up.

No matter how much you would like to believe it, the US simply does not engage in indiscriminant bombing, plain and simple. It is indeed impossible to avoid civilian casualties in a war in which our great "holy warrior" opponents hide amognst the masses, yet we do not strive to kill civilians as you obviously are insinuating. I came very close to spweing out a curse filled tirade at your ignorance, but I know it is pointless. The fact is, "indiscriminate" bombing is a thing of the past. It makes no sense either politically, strategically or financially. As the link I have provided shows, we use precision guided bombs and we use them well. Do we suffer from the occasional bad intelligence? Yes. Do our enemies hide in mosques and amongst innocent civilians? Yes. But this does not change the fact that we do not "indiscriminantly" bomb anything. The thought is frankly comical, as are you and your baseless insinuations.

The link follows:

Link

on Jul 08, 2005

In just under 230 years, no nation has gone though what we’ve gone thought. Breaking away from the mother country, exploring and controlling a vast wilderness, surviving civil wars, race riots, pandemics, crushing economic depression,

Though the declaration of independence was signed in 1776, "we" were here long before then.  The Mayflower landed in 1620.  (And then we hanged a bunch of "witches" in 1692 - My family came over somewhere in between since they were born in England but a couple were hanged for witchcraft.... but, that has nothing to do with this topic what-so-ever...) 

EoIC, I think that a lot of the world is finally seeing the big picture.  Many people, including some Americans, felt that the attacks on the US were "called for".  But, as time is showing, nobody on the planet is safe from this, and *nobody* deserves it.

My heart ached when I started hearing about the attacks in London.  Stardock works with quite a few British, and I hated to think that any of them or their friends or family may have been involved.  Of course, in a way, they will be involved if they knew the people or not, just as most Americans were involved when 9/11 happened. As i heard about what happened, and the reaction of the citizens, I started to feel the same ache in my soul that I had when America was attacked. 

 

on Jul 08, 2005
I wrote an article on how the Europeans do not understand Americans.  I can see it is a 2 way street, as I really do not understand your attitude back in 01.  I find it very sad that it had to be brought home so deadly to you for you to realize it.  I am glad you are getting a frist hand education from Sabrina on America and Americans.
on Jul 08, 2005
That's not what I meant, LW. Put my question into the context of your statement that I quoted.
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