"If it's provable we can kill it."
Or, sex is fun. And holy.
Published on September 29, 2007 By EmperorofIceCream In Religion
There is no such thing as original sin. There is no such thing as 'sin' at all.

Original sin as sexual sin began life with the writings of Saint Augustine of Hippo, one of the most influential Christian writers and thinkers in the history of the Church. Augustine was not always a Christian. He was a convert from Manicheanism, and before his fascination with Dualism took hold he had been, by his own confession, a drunkard and a general debauchee, possessed by a rabid appetite for sex.

What he so eagerly enjoyed in his youth he was to deny to others in his later life, being tormented by guilt - or, as he put it, having repented of his 'sin'. Augustine is the principal originator of the doctrine of Original Sin as a sexually transmitted disease of the Spirit, a doctrine to be found in his greatest work 'The City of God'.

The Christians will tell you that sin is as much a physical as a spiritual reality. But if the source of sin is in the Spirit it can have no effect on the body; and if it originates in the body it can have no effect upon the Spirit, because the two are totally different in nature. Spirit is immortal and perfect; material reality, including the body, is fallible, subject to decay, and transitory. Original sin, as an idea, is equivalent to the statement "That apple is diseased, so these elephants will get sick." Not merely nonsense - but nonsense on stilts and turning cartwheels.

However, the fact that Original Sin is nonsense in itself hasn't had any adverse effect on its popularity as a staple of Christian doctrine and belief. It's also proved remarkably effective as a tool for controlling the behaviour of the believer. Once granted as a basic premise of faith, it's a perfectly serviceable argument to use in order to explain that sense of dissatisfaction and unhappines, that vague sense of malaise and discomfort we all feel, simply as a consequence of being born human in a human world. We all feel that things aren't right. That there's something wrong, somewhere. This faint sense of existential angst was the premise of Neo's search for the Matrix, of Faust's desire for 'unholy' knowledge, of the the alchemical search for the Philosopher's Stone (which had nothing to do with turning physical lead into physical gold, and everything to do with the transmutation of the human condition).

In order to exploit it you have to be able to explain it. And once you have, you have the ground for the Doctrine of Salvation and Damnation, for the hope of Heaven and the fear of Hell, and for all the opportunities for the exercise of power that come from the authentic belief that you (the family priest, the Church) control the eternal destiny of the believer. And the more things there are that constitute grounds for damnation, then the more opportunities there are for the exercise of that power.

Just as the canon of books that constitute the Bible did not fall ready-made made from Heaven but was constructed by men (primarily at the Council of Nicaea) so the idea of sin was constructed over time. Sexual sin in particular was constucted against the mores and sexual practices of the ancient Middle East, which were used by the early Fathers of the Church as standards to define what Christianity was not. It's always easier to say what a thing isn't than what it is. Augustine, womanizing hypocrite and drunkard that he was, took his own life and used his new-found standard of sin (everything he had done previously) and used it to define a new standard of Godliness and righteousness (everything he had not done previously - particularly in relation to sex). But so great was the spiritual paranoia induced by the history of his personal sexual adventures, as well as by his former devotion to heathen religious practices, that he had to find a ground for the 'corruption' of human nature (all of humanity had to be corrupt, because otherwise Augustine would have had to face an angry God alone) - so that this corruption had to be universal in nature - as well as a means of ensuring that every human being had by necessity to participate in that corruption.

The only possible contender is sex. And birth the perfect means of transmission. We're all created as the consequence of a sexual act, and everyone reading this was born of a woman. And because sex and birth come together in the bodies of women, women have always been condemned by both Augustine and the Church as the carriers of sin. Women, said Augustine, were the Devil's gateway.

If you look carefully into what's known of religio-sexual practice in the ancient Middle East (which included Temple prostitutes of both sexes as well as a whole host of sexual acts performed both openly and privately that most Americans regard with sickly prurience to this day) and then compare those practices to the sexual mores of contemporary American Christianity, you'll find every one of these formerly holy acts to be subject to condemnation.

Sin, and sexual sin in particular, were born out of two complimentary impulses: fear, and the desire to control others. It's no more a sin for two adult males to engage in sex than it is for two adult females, or for an adult man and an adult woman. So far is it from being 'sinful', that these types of acts have been practiced as holy rituals across human cultures and throughout human history.

Sin, far from being an act or acts subject to Divine punishment, is in fact an act or acts which are subject to the punishment of men, at the behest of those in Authority, using God as their justification and accomplice.

None of which is to say that there is no such thing as wrong-doing. From our days in the schoolyard, all of us know that some things are simply wrong. Ask any child, and he or she will tell you that snitching is wrong. They can't tell you why it's wrong, but they know that it is. They know that breaking a promise is wrong; they know that maliciously harming another is wrong. In other words, they know that it's wrong to break the bonds of personal trust and communal fidelity. Being children they can't put the issue in such terms, but they understand the principle - as do we all.

They know this because each of us has a conscience that doesn't depend for its integrity and meaning on religious revelation. Such principles form 'the Rules', with which every child is intimately familiar without any need for instruction by an adult, a priest, or any other intermediary. Conscience is formed in part by the mores of the community, and in part by the practice and example of parents. And any man could live at peace with himself and his neighbours if he simply followed the dictates of his own conscience.

Sin, however, is something distinct from this generalized sense of wrong-doing that we all share. Sin is wrong-doing flavored with religion. In order to say what I actually mean, I'm now going to have to introduce a couple of technical philosophical terms. The first of these is 'ontology'. Ontology is that branch of philosophy that tries to determine what makes a thing the thing that it is. What constitutes the 'horsiness' of a horse? What constitutes the 'grassiness' of a blade of grass? What constitutes the manliness of a man, or the womanliness of a woman, or the humanity of a human being? What are the first principles of being a particular thing that makes that thing the thing that it is?

And the second of these terms is 'teleology'. If ontology looks at first principles in relation to things, teleology looks at the processes by which those first principles operate. By what process does the 'horsiness' of a horse lead to the full expression of that principle in the adult horse? What processes are at work in the development of the child into the adult man or woman? But teleology and ontology are not random, as evolution is. A teleological view of the horse does not permit the idea that the horse as we know it today was ever any other type of creature than a horse. Early horses may have been less perfect horses than those of today - but they were never anything other than horses.

As Thomas Aquinas showed in his great work the Summa these ideas, first developed by the ancient Greeks, are not incompatible with the Christian doctrine of the soul as the animating force that gives life to matter, to flesh. Teleology, which is developmental in nature, shows that there is a principle at work in the flesh that leads to greater and greater sophistication and refinement. Ontology shows that this principle of development is not a part of the flesh itself but derives from something greater than and independent of the flesh - which in the Christian mythology is the soul.

What Augustine did was to argue that, through the Fall, both the soul and the body had become sick with the sickness of pride, with a delusion of self-sufficiency, and that this sickness, contaminating soul and body alike, was transmitted through the mechanism of sex. Why sex? Remember, Augustine had been a pagan, had made use of Temple prostitutes, had participated in rituals in which sex becomes the vehicle of communion with the Gods, is a sacrament in itself.

Whether he knew it or not, sex retained for Augustine a profound spiritual component - but a component through which 'false' gods, 'demons', now made themselves manifest. Sex, obviously, was the primordial means by which the nature of God (the imago dei) was imprinted upon the mind and body of the human being. And sex, therefore, was essentially sinful. And not merely sinful but the worst of all possible sins because the most perilous. As he was all too well aware, being himself a sexual sinner of (in his own mind) the worst sort, sex lead straight to Hell. And sex of the kind practiced in the Temples with which he was familiar, homosexual sex, promiscuous sex, ritual sex, was the worst of the worst of all possible sins.

Which is why Christians are so terrified of, fascinated by, and repulsed by, unregulated sex - especially unregulated sex that doesn't conform to what they consider to be 'natural'. Why other behaviours which, according to the school-yard code of 'the Rules' are far more damaging to the integrity of the individual and the cohesion of the community, go unregarded and unremarked.

It's wrong to tolerate poverty when you have more than you need. It's wrong to tolerate unfairness, prejudice, and greed. It's wrong to bear false witness. It's wrong to allow the weak to be subject to the arbitrary tyrrany of the strong.

But those things are not sins. They're just wrong.

The notion that there are sins for which we will be punished after death is at once hysterically funny (how much attention do you pay to the social interaction of the ant colony in your yard?) and an instrument of social, personal, and political oppression that has served the powerful well for two thousand years.

There is no such thing as sin. 'Sin' is the construction of those who wish to determine the course of your life so that it, your life, serves their interests and not yours. There is, however, wrong-doing. The sooner you realize the difference the less you will fear death, and the more free you will be.


The gods are dead (may they live forever) and only we remain. And the sooner we know it the happier we will be.

Comments (Page 6)
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on Oct 11, 2007
I just wanted to know if you had picked up my burqa yet.


    . You can pick it up yourself if you like that. God did not require it, but they have lots of them in Saudia Arabia and Afghanistan. The Afghanistani ones are very colorful. The Saudi ones .... well, they are ugly i tell u the truth.
on Oct 12, 2007
you are sentenced to wear nothing but thigh-highs


Knee-highs LW. You going to get TW in trouble here   .
on Oct 12, 2007
In 1965, the Supreme Court recognized Secular Humanism as a religion in its the United States vs. Seeger decision


hopefully, for the sake of those who rely upon your explanation of catholicism and familiarity with scripture, your grasp of both greatly exceeds your understanding of the law.

in fact, what is or is not a religion cannot be decided by our courts. allowing for the possibility that ones personal philosophy may be equivalent in some respects to elements common to others' religious belief systems is something else entirely.

for further clarification, please go here: here cum da judge

The following United States Supreme Court cases have been selected for any/all references to secular humanism, a cite of Torcaso v Watkins, a religion of Humanism, etc. Notice that:

Not one single one of these cases hold that secular humanism is a religion.
Not a single one of these cases state that Torcaso v Watkins held that secular humanism was or is a religion.


on Oct 12, 2007
To: little whip

"Until then, you are sentenced to wear nothing but thigh-highs, lipstick, and heels."

Cool. Can I have spangles on the thigh highs? And the heels have to be red.
on Oct 12, 2007
Lula posts:
In 1965, the Supreme Court recognized Secular Humanism as a religion in its the United States vs. Seeger decision


Kingbee posts:
in fact, what is or is not a religion cannot be decided by our courts.


KINGBEE,

Since discussing Secular Humanism is veering too much from EOIC's main article, I plan to reply in my own blog.



on Oct 12, 2007
To: All

I'm ever so slightly drunk and ever so slightly stoned, right now. So I'll be magnanimous and tell you all the Meaning of Life, and the Ultimate Answer to Everything.

All the gods are dead. All the gods live forever. Heaven is as real as Hell, and both are illusions - and you are already as much saved as you are damned.

And if you don't understand any of the foregoing, that's just testimony to the fact that you aren't nearly as smart as you think you are.
on Oct 12, 2007
Heaven is as real as Hell, and both are illusions - and you are already as much saved as you are damned.


And if you don't understand any of the foregoing, that's just testimony to the fact that you aren't nearly as smart as you think you are.


EOIC, I couldn't disagree with you more and it certainly isn't because I'm smart.


There is an old Latin saying, "Respice ad finem." It means "look to the end."

And that end is either Heaven or Hell. This doesn't take rocket science to figure out. The choice is within the power of each human being. A life of virtue leads to Heaven; while a life of vice leads to Hell.

This is what Almighty God has told us. In the beginning there was God, all Holy, all Perfect who created the world of angels and mankind. the angels were given their chance for happiness and some seized their chance and others failed and they were condemned to eternal punishment. God created mankind and gave him the same chance for eternal happiness. Adam fell from God's grace and lost that chance for himself and the entire human race. But the love of God for men was not so easily foiled.

Through the Redemption worked by Christ all men from Adam down through to the end of time can achieve salvation. Through Christ and (I'd say through His Church, by the Holy Mass and 7 Sacraments)by prayer, the grace of God is restored and the practice of virtue is possible. God could not do any more than this for His creation. God has done His part, He has restored grace to man. Man has only to do his part-- choose life--choose God and live by that choice.


on Oct 15, 2007
Dear EOIC,

Great article and wonderful discussion. It is, indeed, good to see a few differing points of view. There is an old Buddhist phrase that comes out of the Diamond sutra, something isn't what we call it, its just what we call it. This points to the fundamental difference between the thing and its conceptualization.

Monotheism seems all about concepts, sin, evil, God, the Adversary. Not really the things itself: reality.

Buddhist practice is the practice of seeking what is there before the words and ideas we generate about what we see, feel, touch, taste, smell, hear, or think about. So, I wonder, what is sin. Sin is first and foremost not what we cal it. Sin is not a concept. Sin is an action, it seems to me. An action that causes harm and inhibits life. From this perspective, monotheistic religions, especially those who focus soooo much our their attention on sin, are themselves sinful, as such a focus does substantial harm to the hearts under such scrutiny.

Apart from human being's mental activity, there is no sin.

Be well.
on Oct 15, 2007
I see, so he only gave his angelic beings a single shot at it, but mankind gets redeemed by Christ? Would that be because he loved man MORE? (i already know the answer here, just want to see lula's.)


Yes, according to God's Justice, the angels got one shot. The ones that sinned were instantly and eternally condemned and the ones what remained obedient were instantly and eternally rewarded.

God created angels and mankind for the same reason that they might persevere in knowledge, love and service to Him according to His Holy Will and be with Him eternally.

It's not that God loves men more than angels rather it's based on the difference in the way He created the angels and He created us. Of His love, He created the choir of angels good and holy and wonderously perfect in every detail with a super abundance of grace, sublime knowledge, beauty, and strength, with nothing lacking in any way. The perfect natural happiness of all the angels was a possession impregnably secure from the very beginning and yet their happiness was not yet final and complete, becasue having been given free will and full responsibility for its outcome, it could be lost by deliberate rejection of God.

On this level of Divine life, there was still much to be had--a goal to be won. By this gift of shared divine life, the angels faced the terrible risks of virtue and vice, of merit and demerit, of Heaven and Hell, for Heaven is natural only to God Himself.

The point is that for all the angels came the moment of trial and they assumed full responsibility for the outcome of that trial.
For them, unlike us, it was only a moment....

There was no necessity for the long period of trial that makes Heaven so uncertain to our flickering strength. We fall, and by the grace of God, rise again only to find our stumbling hearts and weakened nature tripping us up again and again...yet through grace, we persevere in the fight of faith...hopefully to the end.

Not having physical bodies or spiritual souls, the angels suffer no ignorance, violence of passion, no inconstancy of will which weakens our strongest efforts. In them, as in us, grace is the perfection of nature; their supernatural life is the story of the divine perfection of their natural powers.

St.Thomas Aquinas teaches their supernatural love of God then is too instaneous, wholly complete, an irrevocable embrace. For angels, one act of charity is decisive for all eternity; there is no dallying by the angels in the face of the choice of Heaven. In that one instant, the time of their trial was over, one instant marked the end of their merit, in one blinding flash of love, their place in Heaven was fixed forever.

The consequence of this single moment of trial of the angels was staggering. There is no such thing as a second chance for an angel, no period of contrition and penance. Their instaneous grasp of truth removes all possiblity of a change of will for them.

They love or hate at once and beyond recall as fixed at that instant as we are by death. When the moment had passed, the sinless angels were forever secured at home with God and forever sinless.

The evil angels in that first moment at their abuse of liberty rejected God. Caught in deliberate fascination of their own beauty, they refused to look at the beauty's source, refused to seek for happiness outside their own satisfying self, and so attempted to find in themselves what can only be found in God---the answer to the will's divinely given desire for goodness without limit.

To sin at all, the angel has to take an embraceable good, but in a disorderly fashion, with a deliberate uprooting of that loved good from its proper place. It is no exaggeration to say that the bad introduced chaos into the divine neatness of the universe and that darkness and disarray are the atmosphere of Hell. The devils now sin all they like, and the self imposed slavery more bitter and the hatred more consumingly intense. Their choice was freely made abusing liberty, and it is eternally confirmed to make up Hell's most despairing torment.

(i already know the answer here, just want to see lula's.)


Was your answer the same as mine, only 10 or 12 paragraphs shorter?   

Take care, LW, God Bless your day.
on Oct 15, 2007
Wow, talk about not getting the joke.


No shit. It's par for the course, though.
on Oct 15, 2007
There is an old Buddhist phrase that comes out of the Diamond sutra, something isn't what we call it, its just what we call it. This points to the fundamental difference between the thing and its conceptualization.


Hi So Daiho,

Yes, another way of saying the same thing is that it comes down to terms...those used and that's why we find ourselves so often having to cite dictionary definitions...

For example, I often say, he who governs the culture's language, governs the culture.


Monotheism seems all about concepts, sin, evil, God, the Adversary. Not really the things itself: reality.


So, now I suppose we must define reality.

To me, even though I can't see, touch, feel, or hear sin, evil, GOd, or Satan, they are all reality.

These are reality because it boils down to the truth we possess which is a humble thing; no more, in fact, than the mirroring of the real world around us.

When we substitute the product of our minds for the products of God's mind, we fashion a world of fancy to replace the world of things as they are. By this we cut ourselves off from truth retiring the real world into one of our own making, isolationg ourselves in solitary confinement.

We do not create truth; we discover what is real. Denying that sin, evil, God and Satan exists is true blindness moreso than plucking out your eyes. It is God Who is truth and the source of truth. The Infinite Reality is God.
on Oct 15, 2007
Hello LW,

St.Thomas Aquinas' Summa Theologica The 1952 simplified version with Catholic commentary by Frs. Walter Farrell, and Martin J. Healy.

on Oct 16, 2007
To: All

I apologize for my delay in responding to recent posts, particularly those of lulapilgrim and Sodaiho. I've been (still am) somewhat ill and prevented from responding by pressures of work ans nausea. However, I should (Ihope) shortly be much recovered and will respond properly over the next few days. I have an immediate question for lula, however.

What is the head and front of sin? More plainly put, in Catholic theology, what is the source of all sin?

And again, apologies to A/all (a small memorial to the gods of old VP there) for my absence.
on Oct 16, 2007
I see, so he only gave his angelic beings a single shot at it, but mankind gets redeemed by Christ? Would that be because he loved man MORE? (i already know the answer here, just want to see lula's.)


LW,

OK, you disagree with my answer, what's yours?
on Oct 16, 2007
More plainly put, in Catholic theology, what is the source of all sin?


I'd say it is misuse of the God's gift of free will. Both of God's creatures, angels and mankind were given the gift of free will. The difference between angelic free will and that of man is that man has a soul. While angels have only a spritual nature, nan has both a natural and spiritual nature, free will is in his spiritual soul.

Our soul has free will by which we are able to do or not do a thing, just as we please. We are free to sin and refuse to obey God. God Himself, while He leaves me my free will could not oblige me to do anything unless I wished to do it, neither could the devil. I am free therefore and can use this great gift either to benefit or inure myself. If it were not free I would not deserve reward or punishment for my actions, for no one is or should be punished for doing what he cannot help. God would not punish us for sin if we were not free to commit or avoid it.


This comes from Genesis 2...When God created man, He said: "Let Us make man in Our Image and Likeness, and give him dominion over all animals and over the whole earth." He then formed a human body of the slime of the earth, breathed into his face the breath of life, and man became a living soul.

The soul therefore is not made of the earth, but is a breath of God. By what means does man become a living being at the moment of conception? When God breathes the soul into the human body (which is in its first stages of development.) The soul is the cause of the body's life and without it the physical body cannot live...this is the death that was God's punishment for Adam's Original Sin...which we all inherited. When the soul is separated from the body, the body dies..the soul which never dies is separates from the body and goes immediately before the Particular Judgment and goes to Heaven or Hell...the physical body returns to dust. At the General Resurrection at the end of the world, the soul is reunited to the physical body and the glorified immortal body and soul stands before the Final Judgment and recieves his just reward....eternal life or eternal death.

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