"If it's provable we can kill it."
Or, friends are friends, despite the realities of the world
Published on January 13, 2007 By EmperorofIceCream In Politics
The most straightforward argument I can think of for 'unthinking', 'unquestioning' support on the part of Britain for America is simply this: without American support there would be no Britain. Without the support of America during WW2 there would, now, be no 'English-speaking' people outside of America. Hitler's Germany would have swallowed us whole - as it very nearly did. Britain owes to America its national life - and this is not a debt that can ever be repaid.

That being so, the decision of the current British government to withdraw three thousand troops from Iraq by May of this year is an act of the most abhorrent treachery. Treachery directed towards the American people, who labored for our welfare during WW2, but directed also towards the national character of the English.

I am English. I do not run when circumstances become difficult. And I have always believed that to be true of my fellow-countrymen. We do not run. We stand and fight. Some will have observed that Persons of Scots descent posted their opinions on this thread. Opinions I have deleted. The Scots are not the English - and therefore I have no interest in, or toleration for, their opinions. Which is why I deleted their comments. The Scots, the Irish, and the Welsh, are not fit to stand shoulder to shoulder with the English. I will not permit their presence on my blog.

Britain should, now and forever, support America. Because without America the British would not exist. It's that simple. The British owe to America the continuation of their national life: without American sacrifice (in both World Wars) the 'British Isles' would be a province of Germany. Again, it's that simple.

No matter the spurious nature of the arguments that lead Britain into the war in Iraq; no doubt the imbecility of the conduct of that war; Britain is involved on the behalf of its most ancient and trusted friend. To turn from her now, whatever the rights or wrongs of the particular conflict in which she is involved, is a slur upon the character of the English, and is a gross insult to the people who made sacrifice when the British stood in need.

An insult I want no part of.

Britain is no longer the seat of a world-spanning Empire. No longer is it one of the Major Players in the great game of international power-politics. It is, however, still the Seat of the English - and the English (at least according to this Englishman) do not betray their friends.

And England has no greater friend than America.

Comments
on Jan 14, 2007
"without American support there would be no Britain."

It is true that the UK probably would have been invaded by the Germans but whether or not that invasion was a success is of very serious debate. The fact is Britain survived quite a while and under very severe strain at the onset of WW2, and may have survived or at the very least given in and offered the Germans peace. They may very well have been able to defend against an invasion for a very long time. They did so from 1939-1944.

"The Scots, the Irish, and the Welsh, are not fit to stand shoulder to shoulder with the English. I will not permit their presence on my blog."
Well thats an interesting perspective, unfortunate though.

"To turn from her now, whatever the rights or wrongs of the particular conflict in which she is involved, is a slur upon the character of the English, and is a gross insult to the people who made sacrifice when the British stood in need."

I guess it doesn't matter if the war was a bad idea, the cause, less then the stellar sale job done by both prime minister and president, the result, a collapsing country immersed in civil strife and of refugees crossing the border both ways trying to escape the violence or add to it. Yes I can understand why a country would like to pull out as others have done, I can also understand that this is not the case and that the British are at the end of their logistical capability. It is not a policy change but one of having no more troops left to deploy.
on Jan 14, 2007
"without American support there would be no Britain."


Fair enough. Without the British, there would have been no America..........if for slightly different reasons. And also during a couple of wars that were started for somewhat doubtful reasons, in which they fought side by side........and front to front.

The Scots, the Irish, and the Welsh, are not fit to stand shoulder to shoulder with the English.


I've got plenty of all the preceding floating around in the woodpile, but mostly I think of my ancestry as Texan. And erase my comment or not, we're fit to fight with anybody.
on Jan 14, 2007
Ice Cream man: "The Scots, The Irish and the Welsh, are not fit to stand shoulder to shoulder with the English"

Ouch. Before you delete this thoroughly pissed off Scot's comments, could you answer these questions?
* If you are so thoroughly English why did you leave your Dear England?
* I agree that we owe a great amount to the USA. Did you forget that thousands of Brits lost their lives fighting the Japanese?
* Are you pulling chains and taking the piss out of us? If so, allow us recompense. I challenge you to a duel at dawn, Dirks drawn and ready.

A final word: You expect Britain to increase its troop strength when most of the USA is against Bush doing so. Do you think we(all of us) are mad?

Sassenach!!!!
on Jan 14, 2007
"I challenge you to a duel at dawn, Dirks drawn and ready."

A duel challenge, hell yeah, bet you won't turn this one down, will it be the worlds first online duel?

on Jan 14, 2007
This is what I think America and Britain should do in Iraq:


Below is my advice of what we should do in Iraq:


1. Shift 50,000 troops to Afghanistan and keep the balance in Iraq.

2. Reassign remaining U.S. military in Iraq to perform the following missions:

A. Secure the border of Iraq and help protect the infrastructure.
B. Destroy all foreign terrorist forces in western Iraq and prevent their operation in the future.
C. Provide logistical and air support for Iraqi military forces.

3. Turn over ALL combat operations against Sunni/Shiite areas to Iraqi Forces.

4. Increase the training of Iraqi military and police forces.


If the Iraqi Government and military ends the sectarian violence and provides the political compromises to end the violence, we would continue the four missions above. If the Iraqi’s fail to establish security and come to the political compromises within the next 12 months, we REMOVE ALL U.S. Forces from Iraq!
on Jan 15, 2007
"Shift 50,000 troops to Afghanistan"

Time for those troops to come home.

"Turn over ALL combat operations against Sunni/Shiite areas to Iraqi Forces."

Regardless of whether or not they are ready, if they run and flee which they have consistently done on several occasions when put in that position before.

"If the Iraqi’s fail to establish security and come to the political compromises within the next 12 months, we REMOVE ALL U.S. Forces from Iraq!"

Why give them another 12 months, how about 12 more days. Fix it with us in country in a supporting role, or fix it without us.
on Jan 15, 2007
I erased the comments because I had no intention of wasting time indulging in a farcical game of 'my nationality is better than yours'. I won't engage in it because I already know the answer - and it has nothing to do with the Scots or Irish, and least of all the destestable Welsh.

Adnauseam - you have slightly more wit than I gave you credit for so I'll answer you.

If you are so thoroughly English why did you leave your Dear England?


Because it's no longer England. It's a bad Disney version of England. I would rather live in the real America than in a bad copy of it.


* I agree that we owe a great amount to the USA. Did you forget that thousands of Brits lost their lives fighting the Japanese?


I've always admired soldiers per se. irrespective of nationality, because they all make the same sacrifices. And no, I haven't forgotten the sacrifices of either British troops on behalf of America, or American troops on behalf of the British. And what, precisely, does that have to do with showing support - active, military support - to the one nation that literally saved the life of the British polity? If it wasn't for America we would all be speaking German now. And there is another argument. Blair is deeply unpopular now, and his decision to support America in Iraq in particular was controversial and unpopular from the beginning. Nonetheless, Blair is the elected head, the elected representative, of the British people. Unless you're willing to grant a right in the people to overthrow unpopular leaders and disavow their policies - then the policy of support for America is a legitimate determination of the elected government of the British Isles and ought to be supported. If another debate occurs, and another decision is subsequently taken by a different government, that would be a different matter. I would still consider it an act of egregious treachery and ingratitude - but it would not be an illegitimate, hypocritical act.

Are you pulling chains and taking the piss out of us? If so, allow us recompense. I challenge you to a duel at dawn, Dirks drawn and ready.
A final word: You expect Britain to increase its troop strength when most of the USA is against Bush doing so. Do you think we(all of us) are mad?


Mad? Obviously not. Eminently practicable and reasonable in fact. But treacherous and cowardly.

As to the duel, I'm an American now. I'll bring an Uzi.
on Jan 15, 2007
To: Spc Nobody Special

I've got plenty of all the preceding floating around in the woodpile, but mostly I think of my ancestry as Texan. And erase my comment or not, we're fit to fight with anybody.


Be damned to your genes. You're an American, and have no involvement in the heredity hatreds of the British. Do something useful and shoot some Mexicans, instead of pretending to be a Scot.

And yes, Texans are fit to stand and fight with anyone. Even the English.
on Jan 16, 2007
The English have always betrayed their vassals, so it only makes sense for them to get out quick when there's the possibility their masters could betray them (eg by leaving Iraq quickly and leaving England with the bag).

It's a damn English thing to do, come to think about it.
on Jan 16, 2007
Emperor:
I do agree with some of the comments in your reply. I shall sheath my dirk.......for now.
on Jan 16, 2007
"Do something useful and shoot some Mexicans"

I bet children would look on a comment like that and think how stupid. Must be a joke.

We are all related to one another in some way or another.
on Jan 17, 2007
To: Dan Greene

I bet children would look on a comment like that and think how stupid. Must be a joke.


Probably. And?

We are all related to one another in some way or another.


So we're related. What of it? If you have a point to make, as opposed drooling all over my blog, perhaps you could make it.
on Mar 03, 2007
Why would you want to shoot Mexicans because they are Mexicans?